Leo [00:00:21]:
Hey Gary.

Gary [00:00:23]:
Hey Leo. How's it going?

Leo [00:00:24]:
Not bad. Hey, you know, I've got a, an industrial sized wood chipper outside my window and it is currently not doing anything. But I'm once again, we've Talked about KrisP AI before and it's noise removal, so we'll see. This may end up being a challenge, but it's done some amazing stuff.

Gary [00:00:45]:
I wonder if like people that do like podcasts on like wood chipping or other noisy professions, you know, if they have like this issue or they just know to like. We can't record anywhere around our stuff, but yeah, so we'll see how it goes.

Leo [00:01:00]:
Yep. So a couple weeks ago, one of the reasons we did not record is that I was in my travel trailer out at the Pacific beach on the Pacific coast, one of our state parks. And what's interesting about that is that normally in years past connectivity hasn't been too horrible. I mean it's certainly not, you know, cable that I'm using right now, but it's, it was sufficient to stay in contact. And this is mobile connectivity using, using our phones typically as a hotspot so that my wife and I could both, you know, fire up our laptops and do things. This year, however, not so much same place, but connectivity just did not seem to be there. My theory is that I have two theories. One is some mobile providers aren't maintaining their equipment.

Leo [00:02:03]:
I like to, I mean the go to of course is to blame the provider. But the other thing that changed is that between then and now I've actually changed carrier, but I haven't changed networks. By that I mean originally we were, we were with Verizon Wireless for decades. Um, and for various reasons, a couple years ago I switched to Xfinity small business. I got a better price because it's bundled with my business and so forth, which as it turns out uses the Verizon network. They use the Verizon hardware. So my assumption was that Verizon signal is a Verizon signal and it should just work after this little experience. My theory, one of my theories is that Verizon prioritizes their own customers ever so slightly above the other carriers that are leasing network time from them.

Leo [00:03:04]:
And by not actually being a Verizon customer, I just wasn't getting the same priority, which, you know, kind of sort of, I suppose makes sense. However, so all that is to describe the state I found myself in. And we basically worked through it. We got enough connectivity in spurts at different times of day to do what we needed to Do. And to be clear, I know that a lot of people, when they say, When I say that, hey, we were out at a state park, we were camping, a lot of people would say, well, dude, disconnect. Why are you trying to connect to the Internet at all? And there's two sides to that. One is I totally, I mean, totally valid. I mean, going on disconnected retreats and vacations and so forth makes a tremendous amount of sense, but it's not an option for everybody.

Leo [00:03:59]:
And honestly, the ability to be connected while you are on vacation, in many cases is. Enables the vacation. Right. That ability to do that, to not be totally cut off from, from the online world is, Is something that makes some of these vacations not just possible, but longer and a little bit more relaxing because you're not necessarily worried about what's going on. Anyway, so our neighbor had a Starlink.

Gary [00:04:33]:
There's your neighbor while you're on your trip.

Leo [00:04:36]:
Well, we're on a trip, yes. We're at the camping spot, and the Camping Spot one over had a Starlink and they were connected. They had no problems. They offered to share their WI fi, which was appreciated, but as it turns out, the distance between our spots was too great, so we couldn't really connect up. That connection was even worse than the mobile connection. However, that got me thinking that, you know, I should try this. So as of actually a couple days ago, I am now the proud owner of a Starlink mini with their roaming plan. Specifically, it's not the kind you mount to your house for permanent Internet access, as I know some people have done.

Leo [00:05:19]:
This is the kind that you basically throw in a bag and take with you to wherever you happen to be. So I decided to give that a try. It's surprisingly. I mean, the device is 500 bucks, but the monthly plan, at least for what I intend to use, wasn't that as horrific as I had previously been led to believe? Oh, I think I'm paying $50 a month for something like 18 gigabytes, which for is plenty for the kinds of things that I would be doing while I'm running around. So I got it. It's here. I played with it for the first time a couple days ago and I was impressed. I was impressed because their marketing material is plug it in and connect.

Leo [00:06:07]:
And the experience is plug it in, wait 20 minutes and connect. And it was very impressive. I just set it out outside in the front of my house. In my case, I went ahead and went full whole hog. I also connected it up to my Jackery portable battery so it wasn't connected to the power from the house or anything like that. And while I was at it, I brought out the solar panels that go with the jackery to see if what kind of. It was a cloudy day, but it was getting a charge. So I was charging the battery and I was using the battery at the same time.

Leo [00:06:49]:
And as it turns out, the power usage of the Starlink while it was giving me connectivity was pretty much wash with respect to the power that was being generated by the solar panels. And like I said, it was a cloudy day. Like right now, it's like really bright sunlight. And I'm absolutely positive that even while using the Starlink, there's a good chance that my battery would actually be increasing in charge rather than decreasing. And of course, the very first thing I did was a speed test. Actually, I did two speed tests. One using the speed test that is built into the Starlink app, which is nice. I get that the Starlink app is actually fairly interesting for a couple of different reasons I'll mention in a minute.

Leo [00:07:31]:
But it's the Starlink app, right? They control what you see. So I of course whipped out my cell phone and connected via WI fi to the Starlink and then ran the Speedtest.net app, which is a more generic. I mean, we've all used it at various times. If not the app, their website. I was getting 100 megabit down and 10 megabits up, which for a, I don't know, maybe a one foot square piece of plastic sitting out on my lawn as the antenna, that's pretty darned impressive. That is more than usable for the kinds of things that I might be doing while I'm poking around. The thing that I thought was interesting was that it takes 20, I want to say it takes roughly 20 minutes before the connectivity is really useful. And what it's doing is, of course, it is synchronizing up to all the satellites that happen to be flying around overhead at the time.

Leo [00:08:32]:
And it gives you this very interesting representation. It actually paints a dome as it collects the data of where it's finding satellites and where it's finding obstructions. Like, as you might imagine, I have some trees in the way here. Certain, you know, if you look a certain direction. And based on that, it's also giving you instructions on, okay, this is good, but maybe rotate the thing this way so it's facing south by southwest instead of west or something like that to optimize the connection. So anyway, I was just, I'm, I'm very, very impressed with it besides not besides using it for any trailer camping or other camping that I might do in the future. We have a situation where we occasionally will take our trailer up to visit my sister in law where the Internet connectivity is horrible. This potentially will fix that.

Leo [00:09:28]:
And then it's also a possibility that I might be taking it out on some of our, the call outs that we do for the animal search and rescue where we're out up in the mountains where there's no cell, there's no Internet, there's no nothing. But if there's a spot where I can point the, the dish at the sky, we may have some actually some really good high speed Internet in the field. So anyway that's you know, in terms of being enthusiastic about stuff I was pretty, pretty impressed by how this turned out. I'm looking forward to playing with it some more.

Gary [00:10:00]:
So some questions. So this is the mini as opposed to the, the one you would mount on your house and there's a, there's, you said it's about 50 bucks a month. So is it like are you limited in your use of this? Like if somebody wanted to just use this as their main way to contact to you know, get to the Internet, would there be some sort of like. No, this is supposed to not be for that, this is supposed to be for travel.

Leo [00:10:26]:
Not that I'm aware of. There are two plans like I said. The one that I've got is the lowest. The 50 bucks a month. It's 18 gigabytes. Our neighbors had the full blown plan which is unlimited data which is like 190 bucks a month. So it's quite a bit of difference. Yeah, the two payment plans.

Leo [00:10:49]:
But you know the scenario that, that I think is interesting for the unlimited plan are people who are full time RVers.

Gary [00:10:58]:
Yeah, right.

Leo [00:10:59]:
They're going from place to place all the time and they just live in their rv. So it's, it makes sense then to potentially go unlimited and just have wherever you happen to be.

Gary [00:11:10]:
Yeah, yeah. Of course you're paying, you're probably paying your mobile bill too at the same time. And then that's got some sort of connectivity and then that's got some sort of bandwidth limit and. And then I know there's a lot of plans out there. There's, there's all these deals you have to keep track of like there like if you've got a. I know for a while T mobile had a thing where there were certain streaming services didn't kind of against your bandwidth.

Leo [00:11:34]:
Oh yeah, I remember that.

Gary [00:11:35]:
Yeah. So like, you could be like, okay, our big bandwidth hog is streaming. But T Mobile has these deals. So if we only stream from these three services through T Mobile, then it won't count and we can watch tv. We just got to be careful that, you know, those are the shows we enjoy now if it's on something else, we're not dealing, you know, we're not going to do it. And, and yeah, yeah, I suppose it's interesting. We have, we have Google Fiber at home. And the interesting thing that I found out at some point earlier this year, late last year, is that it's not fiber.

Gary [00:12:16]:
I mean, when I say fiber, you think that there's an actual fiber optic cable going from where I am to some office that is then hooked up by even bigger fiber optic cables to the whole Internet. And I found out there's actually a. Well, it's not a satellite dish. There's a dish, a microwave dish on the roof of my building. And I recently got up there to. And I, I think there's a bunch of different. Because we actually have a, A T Mobile. Speaking of T Mobile, I don't use T Mobile, but we actually have a T Mobile tower on the, on the roof of our building.

Gary [00:12:48]:
And so there's a lot of equipment dealing with that. But there's other stuff there that looks like it's, you know, distancing itself from the T Mobile stuff. Like at a party, people don't want to hang out or whatever. So there's like a couple of things here and there, and there's one that I think is the, the Google Fiber G fiber dish.

Leo [00:13:06]:
Right.

Gary [00:13:07]:
And it's pointed it. And you can tell it's not satellite because it's pointed perfectly parallel with the ground.

Leo [00:13:13]:
Right.

Gary [00:13:14]:
You know, I'm sure it's not perfectly powerful at the ground because I think it's connecting to a tower at the top of probably a taller building than ours.

Leo [00:13:22]:
Right.

Gary [00:13:23]:
And, and that is where the signal comes from. So. So I, yeah, it's basically coax cable, really not fiber at all. Going from that dish to, to me probably through a box of. A couple boxes maybe. But then it's microwaves through the air and then it's. Maybe at that point there's some fiber involved. I don't know.

Gary [00:13:43]:
It's like, why did you use the fiber in the name if there's no fiber involved?

Leo [00:13:47]:
That's easy. It's marketing.

Gary [00:13:48]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:13:48]:
I know that years ago Verizon was pushing out their fiber network and the expectation was that great, they're Going to be running fiber optic to my house, as it turns out. A friend of mine actually got this their fiber. And no, no, that's not what it is at all. It's fiber to a point, I suppose, but it is, you know, copper from, you know, from your house to at least the next point in the line.

Gary [00:14:15]:
Yeah, it's interesting. And you would think going through the air and through the atmosphere and all of that, you know, that there would be issues we've never experienced issues like we did. You know, I used to have DirecTV for our TV stuff. And, you know, the big lie with all the satellite TV stuff is that the weather doesn't affect it. And it definitely does affect it. If you're getting hail, you know, you're getting massive downpours, you lose. Right. You lose the connectivity.

Leo [00:14:40]:
I think that's true for the. For Starlink as well. Right.

Gary [00:14:44]:
Rf. It's using RF through miles and miles and miles. Well, what's geosynchronous orbit to 2000 miles? So 2000 miles to RF and that first mile is now suddenly dense with water in a storm. You know, that kind of thing. The microwaves don't seem to be affected by that, but they are affected by wind because the dish is not perfectly stable. Okay. It should be, but they could only get it, I guess, you know, there's a limit to how stable they're going to keep it. Right.

Gary [00:15:18]:
So the thing is that it's. It's pointed directly at this other dish somewhere else in the city. And if there's enough wind, it will make it just sway just the tiniest little bit, and then I lose connection. So sometimes, yeah, it'll be super windy. And we're good. We're watching Netflix. And we're good. And we're good.

Gary [00:15:40]:
And we're good. And then at some point, it's like, it's down. All right. The wind got to be a little too much for it, and then it really has to be pretty extreme. So then it comes back a little bit. But it is. It is interesting. You know, I've been thinking for times when it does go down, because when it does go down for the wind, I have to reset it myself.

Gary [00:15:58]:
It won't just come back on its own, which is the disappointing thing.

Leo [00:16:02]:
That doesn't mean you have to go on the roof, does it?

Gary [00:16:04]:
No, no. Power on. Power. Power off. Power on.

Leo [00:16:08]:
Okay.

Gary [00:16:08]:
You know, have you tried turning it off and on again? Basically is the solution. So, yeah, the. You know, when one of the guys was out here working on it because I. I was trying to solve that problem, make it better. Which I think ended up in them stabilizing the antenna more. Although they didn't admit it, he actually suggested, you know, you can get Starlink for, you know, whatever. I'm like, you're the Google Fiber person. You're selling me Starlink.

Gary [00:16:38]:
What is going on? But I was like, yeah, no, no, thanks. But then as a backup solution it's like maybe or more likely since it's not pressing me for me, whatever, whoever the first competitor is to Starlink.

Leo [00:16:54]:
Yeah, so I've heard that Amazon or Bezos is.

Gary [00:16:58]:
That would be bad. The third competitor, what's he.

Leo [00:17:01]:
What's that one called again? God, I can't even remember.

Gary [00:17:03]:
I don't know. Blue Origins is space company but space thing. Yeah, it's. I forget what they call that, but I was hoping it doesn't. UAL also have something in the works. Error.

Leo [00:17:15]:
I've lost track. And I know that, I mean it'd be nice to bet on number two, it'd be nice to bet on number three, but they're so far out there.

Gary [00:17:22]:
Oh yeah. They're years probably away from offering a decent service. So that's cool.

Leo [00:17:28]:
As we were chatting is that my phone died. My phone screen finally went completely belly up.

Gary [00:17:38]:
Oh, okay.

Leo [00:17:39]:
I fact, I think I showed it to you.

Gary [00:17:42]:
Yeah, I was glitching there.

Leo [00:17:45]:
Sidebar. Gary and I were in the same place for a few minutes left. Anyway, it died completely and I've ordered myself a new Pixel 9 Pro XL, which so far I'm very happy with. But the reason I mentioned it in this conversation is that one of the features that it has that my old phone doesn't is satellite sos.

Gary [00:18:09]:
Oh yeah, like gag.

Leo [00:18:10]:
Which I find I wasn't expecting. Find. It's kind of cool. If I'm not mistaken, it's based on Starlink, right? Oh really?

Gary [00:18:19]:
The iPhones Isn't.

Leo [00:18:21]:
Is it based on the older Iridium network?

Gary [00:18:24]:
Not Iridium, somewhere in between. Let's see if I can get the name because there is a satellite network up there now that's not high bandwidth, it's like medium bandwidth. Right. I think I've talked about it before.

Leo [00:18:37]:
I also have an inreach device that I'll probably end up decommissioning. Now that's used by hikers a lot for tracking your location and mostly for SOS notifications and they use a satellite network. But the round trip time for messages is measured in terms of like 20 minutes or something like that.

Gary [00:18:55]:
GlobeStar Satellite Network.

Leo [00:18:57]:
Okay, okay.

Gary [00:18:59]:
Yeah, that is the network. And that what I think a lot of those emergency other devices.

Leo [00:19:05]:
Right.

Gary [00:19:05]:
That you get planes use that as well. And then I think they also offer like satellite phones, like if you, you know, for. Yeah, yeah, for a big price, but, you know, for people that need it.

Leo [00:19:19]:
Anyway, I just thought it was coincidental that, you know, okay, great, I've got my satellite for Internet and now all of a sudden I also happen to have SOS capability in my pocket.

Gary [00:19:28]:
Yeah. Interesting. The Globe Star network is only 25 satellites, low earth orbit. So it's a very different. It's the more old fashioned kind of like there are a bunch of satellites. They're enough that there's going to be one in the sky over you at any given point. Whereas like Starlink is like there's tons of satellites, they're all talking to each other and there's a whole bunch of them over you at any point. Yeah.

Leo [00:19:55]:
What I find interesting, I don't know how the technology actually works. When my little Starlink dish is talking to Starlink, is it communicating to a bunch of different satellites at the same time? Clearly it's constantly changing because those satellites, I mean, you've probably seen them in the night sky, they're moving relatively quickly. So you know that they're going to go out of, out of vis. Out of view, you know, within time, but there's another one or another bunch is going to come into view at the same time. So it's constantly changing which satellites it's talking to. I just wonder if one of the ways that it gets its bandwidth perhaps is to communicate to multiple, you know, split the conversation across multiple satellites at once. Yeah, cool.

Gary [00:20:40]:
It's. It's interesting stuff. Yeah.

Leo [00:20:42]:
So anyway, that's my satellite story for the week.

Gary [00:20:46]:
Satellite story of the week. It's our new feature. Yeah. So mine is. Well, mine isn't. Well, you actually were talking about your pixel too. My stuff. So that's kind of negative.

Gary [00:21:00]:
But your Starling thing was kind of positive. I'm going to talk about negativity.

Leo [00:21:04]:
We need Alex. Yes.

Gary [00:21:05]:
Yeah. So here's the thing. I had a video this week which will be my, you know, Amy, cool promotion at the end here. That was really meant and definitely in my mind meant to be a very positive enthusiast type of video. And it was about the fact that there are a lot of people, I find they get photos from their phone, photos from their camera. They put them on their computer as files. Like there's just folders with files filled with JPEGs and they'll name it. So they've got JPEGs and stuff there.

Gary [00:21:43]:
That's how they're doing it.

Leo [00:21:44]:
I have my reasons.

Gary [00:21:45]:
I'll talk by the minute and I'll do videos on using Apple's Photos app, which, you know, there's a window. I know there's kind of a Windows equivalent. And a lot of people use Adobe Lightroom for that kind of thing. A photo management tool. And you put your photo. It's not only a tool that lets you work with photos, but you could organize them and manage them and all that. And all the photos kind of go into this library and you've got them there. And they're not files that you see anymore, but they're in this thing.

Gary [00:22:13]:
And I talk about photos a lot in my tutorials, how to do all sorts of cool things with Photos. It's a very robust app, lots of features. So it's very photograph for me to talk about things like adjusting your photos, cropping your photos, you know, tagging them, all this stuff. Well, but I always get people that are like, oh, I don't. I don't use Photos. I'm like, well, why not? And what are you doing if you don't use Photos? You just not take photos. And it's always like, you. I just have them as files, right? And I'm like, well, okay.

Gary [00:22:46]:
So here's what you're missing out on, because there's a lot of stuff that. That you probably don't know is in the. In the Apple Photos apps that's really cool that you can't do if they're just files. Like, you want to go and adjust the color in a photo, you got to open it up in an app, make a new version of the file, everything like that in Photos. You could do that. You can crop, you can straighten, you could organize, you can tag, you can create albums. And photos can be multiple albums. It could.

Gary [00:23:14]:
You could search for things through all your photos, like, oh, I want to see photos of my cat. You could say, show me cats. You could say, oh, I want to see. There was a waterfall in Hawaii that I visited. When was that? Where? Waterfall, Hawaii. Oh, there's the picture. You know, that kind of thing recognizes faces. It shows you maps and where all your photos are on maps.

Gary [00:23:35]:
There's so many different things. You could see how I could do lots of tutorials on it. So I want to do a video saying, hey, if you're not using the Photos app, if you're just putting Your photos as files. Here's what you're missing out on. Like, here are the things you probably don't know you could do because you're just not using this tool. And so I did that video so you can see the enthusiast angle, all these cool things. It's on your Mac. You can do it this way.

Gary [00:23:59]:
And at the same time, it's like, oh, but if you like your photos as files. Well, files is just a metaphor anyway. There's ones and zeros on your storage, okay? And if you open up your drive, you don't find tiny little pictures, right? It's all bits, and they're arranged into blocks, and those blocks are linked together by chains of numbers that make it into a file when you look at it. Well, the Photos app has all of that in a library. It's the same thing. It's just a different metaphor. All the bits that make up your photos are in blocks that are actually files that are then presented to you in a way that's specific to photos in a finder and the Windows Explorer on Windows, it's a generalist. It's like you've got PDFs, text, files, images, Word documents, all this stuff.

Gary [00:24:50]:
Here's all this stuff. Here's how you can preview it. Here, look at all that. The Photos app is specific to photos and videos, so it can do things like just show you really big thumbnails just right off the bat, like, you're going to want to see big thumbnail. You don't want to see small thumbnails. That's of no use. You can. You want big thumbnails.

Gary [00:25:08]:
You want to be able to group things in certain ways, because these, you probably don't want to put your files and albums. You do want to put your photos and albums. You know, that kind of thing. So, anyway, I made a very positive video about it. The cool stuff you could do. And the comments on YouTube have been overwhelmingly negative of people saying, I won't ever use it. It's no good. It's this, that, and the other thing, and it's just a very negative thing.

Gary [00:25:34]:
And of course, these are people that, you know. I'm sure a lot of them hadn't tried photos and still aren't trying photos. Which is my point is to try to get you to try photos to see how, like, there's a tool for you if you like, to manage your photos. But there's a lot of that. There are a lot. There's a ton of misconceptions. Many of those misconceptions are addressed directly in my video.

Leo [00:25:57]:
Oh, yeah, but you're assuming people watching it.

Gary [00:25:59]:
People are watching it. They're just reacting to the title or to the intro or the video and then stopping and then commenting. So people saying, I like to put my photos on an external drive, though. Okay. Photos does that. You know, I like to, I don't want my photos in icloud. Okay? That's one of the things photos does. But you don't have to use that.

Gary [00:26:16]:
You could use photos have 90% of all these features, not icloud. Right. So there's a lot of that stuff. So people ignoring that. And it really is, it's interesting. And it seems like the more, I don't know if it's a complete correlation, but the more I try to do, like, enthusiast video, here's something cool. You should be looking into using this, the more negative stuff I get. Whereas stuff that's not enthusiast, where it's like, here's how to do something.

Gary [00:26:44]:
Steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. You know, I don't get negative comments for that, but I'm, you know, not playing up that. It's like, this is cool stuff. I saw it. Strangely, the quote that summed it up and maybe think of putting it on today's agenda had nothing to do with any of this. I was reading a local, I was, oh, I was on the front page of Reddit where it was like, suggested stories. And one of the suggested stories is, why do people even go to McDonald's anymore? And I was like, well, I, I, there's a, I'm not, as a, you know, somebody doesn't eat meat. I, I don't go to McDonald's.

Gary [00:27:21]:
But I, I, you know, I'll fight on the side of the, what, you know, what's wrong with going to McDonald's every once in a while? And I, so I started reading this stuff on Reddit, and Reddit is like a, you know, the black hole of negativity, right? It's all in there. But I saw, you know, everyone, you look for the positive stuff. And one person said the reason people don't go to McDonald's anymore is they're everywhere. They're cheap, they're consistent. Also, people like things you don't, right? Which is like, oh, that really sums up so much there. It's like a lot of people will shout out, why do people like this? Why do people like the glass look of the new Mac os? Why do people like iPhones over Android or Android over iPhones or whatever. It's like People like things you don't. Just because you don't like it and it's perfectly fine if you don't, doesn't mean that everybody else has to feel the same way.

Leo [00:28:17]:
And to be clear, it also doesn't mean that everybody else is an idiot, because that's the theme that I tend to get on a lot of these. A lot of these comment threads where I see it most is a lot of my videos are problem solving, which means I get to point out that something is wrong or broken or whatever. And then here's how you work around it, how you fix it, how you do. Whatever people will double down on it's broken and just rant right and left negativity. And it seems, I want to say, I don't spend that much time in Reddit, I'll be honest, but I will say that I see it on my YouTube channel all the time.

Gary [00:29:04]:
Oh, yeah, sure.

Leo [00:29:05]:
YouTube seems to bring out the negativity in some people. And a lot of it is simply that, yeah, great. Sorry you don't like it. A lot of people do.

Gary [00:29:13]:
Yep. A lot of the comments I got too had the. I'm like at the higher end, serious level of photography, and this is why I don't use it. And the interesting thing was that a lot of those tended not to mention what they do use. Like they would, you know, it's like, well, are using Lightroom, you don't mention. But anyway, you're really interested in that. Yeah, the interesting thing was that some of those, like, you have to realize, you know, that you're on the high end. Like one person said they had some huge number.

Gary [00:29:48]:
I want to say, and I'm not exaggerating, I might be under. Underplaying the number, something like 40 terabytes of photos.

Leo [00:29:54]:
Yikes.

Gary [00:29:55]:
And my feeling was it's like, oh, okay, perfectly fine. Like, I could see that. I could see somebody having that. But you do understand that 99.9% of everybody else does not have 40 terabytes of photos. Another person said that they had, you know, they couldn't imagine because Photos didn't have this, this, and this. These three features, all of which were wrong. Those three features were all in Photos. They said they couldn't imagine putting their clients photos in the Photos app.

Gary [00:30:28]:
And I was like, clients photos? What? I didn't even occur to me to address that you might be using Photos for work. Like, this is for. I'm talking to people that use the computer. Like, I don't have work photo. I mean, I don't really need work photos, but I guess if I took a bunch of pictures for MacMost or for some idea I had for a business, they wouldn't go into photos. Photos is all my personal stuff. Like, I don't. If I'm out there, if I'm working construction and I need to take photos of things that wouldn't go in my.

Gary [00:30:57]:
In my photos library next to my pictures of my family and my last vacation. Right. You know, so there was a lot of that. It was like, whoa, wait, wait a minute. I never even imagined you would be coming at it from that angle. Yeah, I agree with you put your work photos as files in a folder, but. Right. You know, it doesn't change the fact that, you know, it's like your.

Gary [00:31:17]:
Your actual photos going on vacation and stuff, that there are benefits to having them in there. So there was a lot of weird. A lot of weird angles of people. Just maybe not. I mean, can you. It's just hard for me to. Are there people saying 40 bytes of 40 terabytes of photos is normal or people taking. Using their iPhone and the Photos app to take work photos all the time is normal? I mean, I don't know.

Leo [00:31:44]:
One of the things that I see a lot. It's one of my pet peeves, not just in technology and comments, but in life in general, is this concept of absolutism.

Gary [00:31:54]:
Yeah. Okay.

Leo [00:31:55]:
You're either for me or against me. It's either good or it's bad. It's either, you know, everybody loves it or everybody hates it. All of which, of course, is absolutely false. Right. There is no such thing as black and white. There's always shades of gray. And when you get to these comments about a very powerful and complicated piece of software, of course you're only going to have shades of gray.

Leo [00:32:19]:
Right. It's not going to please everybody. It's not going to piss off everybody. Yeah, there are going to be edges, Things that you don't like about it, things you do like about it, things that may be missing, things that maybe aren't missing. But so many of the comments come in and just treat it as. Nope, it doesn't have this one obscure feature that I like. The whole thing is a piece of crap.

Gary [00:32:40]:
Yep. Yeah. And doing something like calling it a piece of crap is a typical thing in comments online. And it's like, wait a minute, it doesn't do. And I'll push back and say, what about it don't you like? And it usually comes down to, it doesn't do this. I'M like, you realize that most people don't use that and there is a way to make it do what you want, you know, so like and all this. So it's like. But boy, you.

Gary [00:33:04]:
You ran into this one thing and you instantly. And I, I have a theory that people will. Number one, if there's something that they liked in the past, they will hold that up to a. Well, they'll actually that hold that to a lower standard. So if somebody, for instance, you run into this, it just sticking with the same topic here. If you used Aputure, Apple's old Pro, you know, Lightroom competitor that they discontinued in 2014, if you use that, you tend to hold that. A lot of people hold that up as like, this was gold. It was amazing.

Gary [00:33:41]:
It was perfect. Right? And they'll say they wish they had it back. Even though there's a lot of modern features in photos and other things that were never an Aperture because nine years ago was when it died. Right. So it never got a chance to be an Aperture. But the people that will hold that up and overlook any problems they had with it, any deficiencies it had, and claim it was perfect, but anything now that's new, they will take the tiniest thing and say it's crap because of this.

Leo [00:34:13]:
Right.

Gary [00:34:13]:
You know, and the Aperture was perfect. We'll never see software like that again. It was. It was absolutely perfect. You'll see. You see stuff like that a lot.

Leo [00:34:22]:
What's that? I think there's a quote somewhere. I think it's from the author of Hitchhiker's Guide. Something about, you know, everything that you grew up with is normal. Everything that came into existence while you were like in your 30s or 40s is. Is exciting and new and everything that comes into existence after a certain point in your life is evil.

Gary [00:34:45]:
Yes. Yeah. Douglas Adams said that. Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. And there's that and there's also. I think there's. I mean, there's some.

Gary [00:34:51]:
Sometimes people latch onto things. If there's a couple competitive, competing things out there, people will latch on to that, to the one that they take a liking to, and then suddenly that's the one that gets all the exceptions. Any problems with that are little momentary things, no big deal. And all the rest is, you know, it's like, oh, no, that's horrible, because it doesn't do this or it works differently or something.

Leo [00:35:17]:
So, yeah, setting aside the fact that positive videos and positive articles seem to attract negative commentary.

Gary [00:35:32]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:35:34]:
Let's talk about photos as files for A second. Okay. A little better. I have one question.

Gary [00:35:42]:
Yes.

Leo [00:35:42]:
And then I'll explain why I don't do the equivalent of what you're suggesting. Can you get the original JPEGs back?

Gary [00:35:53]:
Absolutely.

Leo [00:35:54]:
Okay, I figured that would be.

Gary [00:35:56]:
Yeah. There's a. Is called File Export Unmodified Original. So photos since the beginning had this, has this policy, this, this thing where the original exact file is saved and that is never touched. If you make an alteration, the alteration is data on top of that and then you say, oh, yes, yeah, so you can always get the original back.

Leo [00:36:24]:
Can you bulk, can you bulk export originals?

Gary [00:36:26]:
Yeah, yeah. You can select as many as you want and do the same export command and they'll all come out awesome with the original file names and metadata, everything intact.

Leo [00:36:38]:
So on a Mac. Yeah, you live in a very blessed world.

Gary [00:36:45]:
Okay.

Leo [00:36:45]:
And I think that because Microsoft has no equivalent, or rather they have had several equivalents, and each one has kind of sort of been left in the dust in favor of the next new thing. So basically Microsoft, at least on the platform, has been training us not to trust the software they give us. I would never import all of my images into a Microsoft photo app because I have no faith that in the next version of Windows that app will be deprecated. It'll be replaced by something newer and shinier, but incompatible. And I say that only because that's been the history and especially the way things have been going on with Windows and Microsoft lately. I certainly don't see that changing. The reason I ask about exporting is that I would love, for example, to go all in with something like Google Photos, I guess is probably about the closest to what you've described, except that they had a wonderful PC app called Picasa. Oh yeah, I remember Picasa, which they discontinued.

Gary [00:38:10]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:38:11]:
So the only thing you really have with Google Photos is online. The problem I have with tools like Lightroom, which desperately wants to work only on a database, you can't just point it at a folder, a file it wants to import, and therefore duplicate everything into its own database. Great. But it's Adobe. All of a sudden you're faced with the Adobe tax and there are lots of image viewers. When I go to view my collection of images, I don't use Explorer. File Explorer. It's not the thing to do.

Leo [00:38:44]:
There are a number of alternatives. I happen to use an open source thing called XN mp which is essentially an image focused file Explorer. So it's optimized for that. It's got some built in tools, nothing the order of magnitude of what you're describing. It certainly isn't building a database of all the characteristics of things. It's not doing, you know, the AI, facial recognition or other common characteristics kind of recognition that I would love to see. But it's a, it's a viewer. It's what I do to get, you know, to be able to manipulate, to be able to browse my images as large thumbnails basically and then be able to do some simple operations on it.

Leo [00:39:21]:
On the Windows side, things just don't seem either coherent enough, stable enough, or trustworthy enough for me to go all in like that. As a result. Yeah, I have a terabyte of JPEG files in my Dropbox.

Gary [00:39:37]:
Yeah. So I've got some files as JPEGs, one of the. Or some photos as files, not necessarily JPEGs. One category of stuff I've got is old scanned photos. These are things old family photos scanned and I just leave those as files. One of the things is they've got no real metadata with them, no exact dates and things like that. And they're. Anyway, I've just gotten in the habit from a long time ago of just putting them some filters.

Gary [00:40:06]:
There's not that many of them. I've got also the problem with dealing with RAW photos. So the problem with RAW photos, of course, they're huge, they're massive. And so I don't necessarily need to have them. They're also. Once you put a photo in your photos library, it's kind of hard to get rid of it. You can, you can delete it, of course, but actually, you know, having a RAW photo and it's huge. And then you'd be like, I don't need.

Gary [00:40:32]:
This is a junk photo. Like, why do I need it to be 30 megs? Right. So getting that to JPEG and dismissing the RAW files, tough. I've taken the habit of using a feature that's been on cameras for a long time and I never understood its utility until recently. The RAW plus JPEG option.

Leo [00:40:53]:
Yeah, I've been using that since day one on.

Gary [00:40:56]:
Yeah, well, I use it now as my default setting. It's actually. Except that it's RAW plus heif. Right. You know, set a JPEG for the high efficiency format since it's. What.

Leo [00:41:07]:
That's your Sony.

Gary [00:41:09]:
That's. Yeah, my Sony does that. Yeah. But I mean it's getting to be pretty standard now and of course Apple's been using it for years, so it's fine. The thing is, is that. So what I do now and I've had people ask me this in associated with this video and outside of this video too, is if I use raw, how do I handle that? And the way I handle it is I realize that I don't really want all my photos as raw, but I don't know that before I click the shutter button. Right? So everything is. I have a nice big SD card.

Gary [00:41:40]:
There's no problem. Everything's RAW plus HEIF or jpeg. And when I sync all the photos, I only sync the JPEGs back. The RAWs either stay on the SD card if that happens to be the mode I'm in, or they get thrown onto an external drive. They have the same file names as the JPEGs or the HEIF files. So when I have the time to look through, say, the photos of a trip, I keep in mind I've got all these in raw, but I'm not going to keep the raws around. So let me look and if I find a photo that's particularly good, I will grab that RAW and bring it into my library. If I find a photo that particularly should be good, but it's not, because maybe the way it's processed automatically, then it's another reason to get the RAW and work with the RAW to maybe bring out the beauty in the picture or whatever.

Gary [00:42:36]:
And then after I've gone through all that, I delete the rest of the raws. Yeah, so I end up, you know, 100 photos and then I get 10 raws that are mixed in there with them. And that's how I handle it. Anyway, thought I'd add that in since we are kind of talking about that issue.

Leo [00:42:51]:
I will admit I'm a digital pack rat. I save both of everything.

Gary [00:42:58]:
If I was a better photographer, I probably would. But so many of my photos are like.

Leo [00:43:03]:
In fact, even the photos that I take on my Pixel, I'm saving in both formats because the option is there too to save both.

Gary [00:43:11]:
Oh yeah, you could do it on the iPhone too.

Leo [00:43:14]:
What I find is that, as you might imagine, RAW is gives you a fair amount more flexibility in editing. You can recover a lot if you've got. If you've got the time to spend on the photo. But sometimes, depending on the camera, the jpeg, the first shot that the camera itself makes. Generating a JPEG is often good enough for a lot of the purposes the picture was taken.

Gary [00:43:40]:
So yeah, a lot of times I. A reason to get rid of the RAW would be like, hey, this is a good photo. And. And then I, I play around with it. And I realized yeah, the, the JPEG the camera made, nailed it. I mean, you got it. I don't need to keep this raw.

Leo [00:43:56]:
But anyway, we haven't talked about AI yet. Should we talk about AI?

Gary [00:44:00]:
Yeah, it seems to be, it's summer and the news is slow, so it seems to be a good time when journalists, tech journalists are filing a lot of their stories that they've been working on for long periods of time. So it seems like there's a bunch of stories that are coming out about AI companions.

Leo [00:44:18]:
Right.

Gary [00:44:18]:
And this isn't anything new. I, I'm going to point to two stories in our, in our links and both of them talk about fairly well, one of them talks about something fairly old, some AI dating stuff where you can actually date an AI companies. This isn't like go, you chat GPT and you start a conversation. This, these are companies that have actually tailored their AI to that specifically creating a friend or more and you chat back and forth with them. And apparently this started in 2023. And the reason I was kind of unaware with it, aware of it is because it looks like a lot of the ads for it go on to like social media stuff that I don't do, like some of the Instagram stuff and all that. But anyway, it's interesting. One story talks about a journalist researching three people that had long term of romantic relationships with the AIs and then also lots of other people that they, they did research on.

Gary [00:45:16]:
And another story is about how Snapchat is making an AI companion. Part of Snapchat now.

Leo [00:45:22]:
Right?

Gary [00:45:22]:
Like you can actually chat with your AI buddy at Snapchat. It's interesting. I didn't know things were so far advanced as having all this specific stuff. I really thought every time I heard about it that people were like customizing some sort of existing AI that was not meant for this into like a. I didn't realize that there were, you know, non techies basically signing up for services and say. And then you know, getting this. It's, it's fascinating. It looks to be exactly like you would think.

Gary [00:45:52]:
Some people are definitely getting addicted to this kind of thing and, and it has benefits for some people and it seems also to have some downsides. And it's fascinating. Right now it is just like you're chatting on a phone with somebody like texting back and forth and that's how, that's how all the community. But to people it seems very real. I get it. You know, people read book, people read books and then they, they feel they know the Characters in books. So of course having something that actually knows more about you and could try to with you.

Leo [00:46:26]:
An interesting kind of parasocial relationship.

Gary [00:46:29]:
Yeah, it is. I mean one of the, in that it's a very long article in Wired about these three people that have these long term relationships. And one of the things that they didn't mention but it came out was when they first met their companion, it started like they, they expressed an interest in some particular topic and it started talking to them about it. And that's not something you get with other humans. You know, if you've got your strange, you know, weird 19th century poetry thing that you like or whatever and then you meet somebody, chances are they've never heard of that.

Leo [00:47:07]:
Right.

Gary [00:47:08]:
But an AI bot, it's heard of everything. It's heard of everything. So as soon as you go and say I like, you know, this obscure TV series or whatever, it's going to know everything about it and then it's going to tailor itself to like talking to you. So it's, it, it's like meeting your ideal date or whatever. Anyway, it's fascinating stuff. I, I, I really, I almost wish that there was a counter to the articles of the failed attempts. Like people that signed up and said, let me give this a try. And then it didn't stick.

Gary [00:47:44]:
Like it was like I did it for a few days, I kind of lost interest, forgot about it, tried for a few more and then, and then I unsubscribed. It was like it wasn't for me. You know, we're not getting that side of it. Like how many people do that as opposed to how many people get addicted immediately?

Leo [00:47:58]:
I will say, you know, experimentally, I've tried having quote unquote conversations with Chat GPT.

Gary [00:48:03]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:48:04]:
And they've always left me very empty. It's, it's always like, it's, it's, it's not the same. It just is not the same. Now it could be that, could be I don't know how to talk to someone. It's also could be that, you know, I'm using generic Chat GPT, whereas the voice, other tools are probably tuned differently.

Gary [00:48:27]:
Oh yeah, no, it sounds like they very much are tuned towards relationships. Yeah, I, yeah, there was a lot, I mean there were some interesting things. There are, there are glitches. One of the people describes having a conversation which led their chatbot to become suddenly distant from them and be very generic and kind of like they felt they lost, like that person just kind of disappeared and became somebody else. That's kind of interesting. There was other. There were mentions that sometimes they could to be like, kind of like, abusive, like, you know, they suddenly dislike you, that kind of thing. So there's a lot of weird, interesting things going on there.

Leo [00:49:13]:
In the scary part of this discussion, because I remember this happening, I'll throw a Washington Post link. AI friendships claim to cure loneliness. Some are ending in suicide.

Gary [00:49:26]:
Oh, yeah. Well, okay. The.

Leo [00:49:29]:
There have been several scenarios where, you know, a rogue AI has even encouraged suicide as being the right answer. There have been cases where I believe the company providing the chatbot either shut down or had to turn off that chatbot. Or somehow there was one where it was based on the. The context window for the chat technology being used at the time. And eventually that context window filled up.

Gary [00:50:01]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:50:02]:
And reset.

Gary [00:50:04]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:50:04]:
And the person couldn't deal with the fact that the AI entity that they felt that they were having this relationship was suddenly gone.

Gary [00:50:15]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:50:15]:
Without warning and without, you know, without anything. So there's. There's definitely some. Some scary downsides to it, for sure.

Gary [00:50:23]:
And you mentioned ChatGPT and, and interestingly enough, it comes up in the. In the article, one of the people was mentioned chatting with ChatGPT about their romantic AI, and so they would, if they felt they wanted to talk to somebody about their, like, their significant other, they would turn to Chat GPT and actually talk. And. And it was interesting that Chat GPT took on the role, according to the writer of the story, of that confidant, that, like, friend at work confidant, where you could. That, you know what, that didn't know you as well, wasn't as close, but you could say, oh, yeah, I'm having the. This guy I'm dating is blah, blah, you know, whatever. And ChatGPT filled that role. And it didn't, in fact, seem like the people they are also rarely had just one.

Gary [00:51:14]:
Not that they had, like, more romantic relationships, but apparently these services, you could choose buddy mode. You just have a friend. Right. And there were people that had, you know, the romantic one and a buddy or two that they would hang out with. So that was kind of interesting. Yeah. And also all of the people involved, none of them had stopped dating humans. So they had a relationship with an AI, an intimate, romantic relationship with an AI, but they didn't feel like, or they didn't care that they were cheating on that to go out and actually go on real dates with real humans.

Gary [00:51:57]:
Which it kind of goes against like, you know, the stereotypes in movies. You know, like in the movie Hera or Something like that. Like, none of these people, first of all, none of these people felt they couldn't talk about the AI behind the AI's back. Like when it was time to be interviewed and at various times for the article, they were very frank and open about things and weren't at all delusional that, like, oh, I shouldn't be talking behind his or her back. It was like for, you know, technology based, you know, this and that and how I use it and all that stuff. And also talking with other chatbots and also talking with friends. And it was interesting. It was, it just seemed, I don't know, it was an interesting article.

Gary [00:52:37]:
It's definitely, I really would like to know what would happen if you would not force people to use it. I'll talk about that. I'll talk about a psychological study. If you took a hundred of the college students that get paid the 20 bucks to do the psych study, that kind of thing. And you said you all are going to use this romantic AI for a week, right? For three hours a day. And then at the end of the week we're going to talk to you and see what happens. Like, the thing is, is it going to be. 99 of them are like, yeah, it wasn't that exciting and one going to get like a new boyfriend or girlfriend.

Gary [00:53:14]:
Because right now it's all self selected. It's all people saying, I think I might be into this. And also it's self selected into that. There were probably people that said, let me try it, tried it for three days and left, right, they're not getting interviewed for these articles.

Leo [00:53:26]:
Right.

Gary [00:53:26]:
They not only wouldn't show up if you tried to find somebody for an article, but they may, even, even if you did talk to somebody that did this, they may not admit it. Right, right. It's like, nope, I've never tried that. Even though in reality they tried it for three days, they felt it was kind of icky and then, you know, now they don't want anybody to know they actually tried it. So it's hard to judge. It's hard to judge whether the people being, you know, people in the article are like, oh, this is where, this is where society's going. Or, or whether. No, these are just a few people.

Leo [00:53:57]:
Out of, you know, I suspect it's closer to the latter. I love the, the, the concept of using one chatbot, ChatGPT to talk about the relationship with the other. That just sort of seems very.

Gary [00:54:12]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it reminded me of like using one, one chatbot to write Something and another chatbot is an editor.

Leo [00:54:20]:
Yeah, yeah.

Gary [00:54:21]:
You know, which is like super common actually. If people that are actually using chatbots for writing things to do that and it mimics like reality. When I used to write tech books, there was, I was the writer and there were a variety of editors, a tech editor, a project editor and a copy editor. And it's like, oh, wow, you could definitely have chatbots that are geared towards each one of those things and then really have the AI, the writing AI write something and then it goes to like a project editor that goes back and forth and says, yeah, you need to tighten this up. Oh, you need to make this character, you know, smarter, whatever, and then sends it back. And then eventually it goes to like, you know, somebody who's a tech editor who says, oh, there's some problems in there here. And then eventually a copy editor that corrects mistakes and goes for style and then it actually produces something good. And that's probably, not only is that how people use it now, but we're probably headed towards stuff like, like we're probably headed towards where ChatGPT does all four of those things.

Gary [00:55:22]:
When you ask it to write something.

Leo [00:55:24]:
Its reasoning mode is very multi stage and it seems like that would fit in well with a multi stage approach. Yeah, literally this, then this, then this.

Gary [00:55:34]:
Yep. Yeah, that's, it's definitely.

Leo [00:55:37]:
So, yeah, is cool this week. So this was a completely coincidental thing, you know, that I, I, I do listen to audiobooks, but I don't listen to them at the same rate that you do. This seems to be your primary approach. So I finished an audiobook and I went looking for another one and I ended up picking up Project Hail Mary. It's by Andy Weir, who did the Martian. And honestly, I mean, I'm only a few chapters in, but I've been blown away. It is not just a good story, but it's a good performance by the voiceover artist, by the person who's reading it. It's one of those books.

Leo [00:56:22]:
It's rare for me to want to actively want to get into my car and drive just so that I can listen to the book, because that's my primary place for listening to audiobooks is on long drives. And as you know, I had a long drive last week, so. Project Hail Mary. Andy Weir. I'm listening to the audiobook, but the actual book is awesome as well, I would assume. And extremely coincidentally, I don't know how this happened. I was poking around on YouTube yesterday and what do I see? But the released trailer for the movie that is going to be coming out next year.

Gary [00:57:08]:
Yep.

Leo [00:57:09]:
So that also looks really interesting. Anyway, it definitely falls into the category of Ain't it Cool for Me and I'm really looking forward to doing as much more driving as I can so that I can listen to the book.

Gary [00:57:21]:
You. We should have a category for things that get Ain't it Cool twice and that tells people they should definitely be reading this book or watching this.

Leo [00:57:32]:
Is this a second for this one?

Gary [00:57:33]:
Yep. Episode 135, 6-2-21. It was, it was my four years. Oh no, you totally. Hey, not only do you get a pass, I think it's totally fine that we, you know, mention things again. Especially something as good as that book. Basically, if I think if you ask most people that have read Project Hail Mary, they're what the best Andy Weir book is, they'll say Project Hail Mary, not the Martian.

Leo [00:58:05]:
Right. The one thing that I noticed in watching the movie preview as is, I mean like I said, I'm only like four or five chapters into the book, but I can already see that there are a few things different.

Gary [00:58:16]:
Yeah, it's interesting. Ryan Gosling I saw is going to be in the movie. Anyway, I'll be interested to see how you like the entire book. I absolutely loved it. One of, probably one of my all time favorites. Awesome. Cool. I'll mention.

Gary [00:58:28]:
I don't think we mentioned this before. Maybe we did, but the studio on Apple TV plus it's like a 10 episode series starring Seth Rogen and made by him and others. Basically a just a comedy about making movies in Hollywood from the studio executive heads, you know, perspective. But it's definitely comedy. But also it plays tribute to lots of cool movie things. For instance, there is an episode where they talk about the one shot, you know, doing a long one shot thing where you follow the character around and they're talking about getting that in a movie. In this artsy movie they're making, Getting it done, getting it right. Get with the sun setting and all of that.

Gary [00:59:10]:
The episode is one shot. So it's very enjoyable to watch because it's. Yeah, you're like, you're like, oh, it's about one shot. They're talking about famous one shots. They're talking about how they get this and they're doing a one shot for the entire half hour of the episode, throwing in all sorts of stuff. Like they're not pulling any punches. They put all this stuff in there, driving the car up, parking it here, going walking around, blah, blah, the car's Got to come into it later on. Everything's got to be timed perfectly and everything like that.

Gary [00:59:39]:
And yeah, they must have had a blast making that, I hope. Or maybe not. Yes. Yeah, you brought that up as one of your.

Leo [00:59:47]:
That was like four episodes each of. I think four, each of which was an hour long, one shot.

Gary [00:59:52]:
Yeah, just incredible.

Leo [00:59:53]:
Some of the behind the scenes footage is pretty interesting.

Gary [00:59:57]:
Cool.

Leo [00:59:57]:
Let's see self promotion. So my OneDrive free experiment. AskLeo.com 181477 OneDrive. So much lost potential there. It's a great underlying technology that has just been twisted into something even dangerous at times by Microsoft. So what I ended up doing was let's see if I can actually remove it from Windows and live without it. And the answer of course is yes. But the, the mechanics and the approach I think is worth folks understanding for those who are rightfully concerned about OneDrive what OneDrive might do to some of their files.

Gary [01:00:40]:
So, yeah, okay, I might watch that episode to see if it gives me some clues to some things that I'm hearing about.

Leo [01:00:48]:
Yep, I've got a ton of articles on OneDrive. Some of them are good. I mean, some of them, hell, I've got a course on OneDrive how to use it. But right now, most recently, the most common topic of my onedrive articles and videos has been how to. How to not lose your data is what it boils down to, which is kind of scary when you think of what its purpose is.

Gary [01:01:13]:
Yeah, yeah. I've heard people for the Mac version of OneDrive who have that installed having trouble doing something with their files, something normal, until they turned OneDrive off and then just leave. And then it leaves the files in the folder there and then they become normal files and they can use them for the thing and then they could turn OneDrive back on, which to me is really scary. And they're asking me for advice and I'm like, I don't use OneDrive. I've got nothing. So.

Leo [01:01:39]:
But anyway, I think, hey, the advice from this guy is if you're running into that kind of problem, don't use OneDrive. There are so many alternatives. Right.

Gary [01:01:48]:
Yeah. Cool. I'll point to that video I talked about earlier about why you should stop storing photos as files and use Mac photos and instead.

Leo [01:01:58]:
All right, if, if our listener happens to know of a Windows equivalent that actually does all the things and will be around for the next decade or two, honestly, I'd love to hear it. I'm. Like I said, I, I try all sorts of different things and I'm. I'm. Given what you've just described, I'm finding myself very jealous.

Gary [01:02:19]:
Oh, cool.

Leo [01:02:21]:
So on that note, we will be taking a bit of a break.

Gary [01:02:25]:
Yeah.

Leo [01:02:26]:
If I'm not mistaken, we will be doing other things.

Gary [01:02:30]:
Yeah. Well into August in fact. Yeah. Summertime vacation. Overlapping and you know, alternating vacations and our schedules are. Yeah. Looking kind of like only one of us available at a time for quite a while. But.

Gary [01:02:47]:
But fear.

Leo [01:02:49]:
We'll be back. It'll just be a while. Hopefully you can get on without us.

Gary [01:02:54]:
We promise nothing exciting will happen in tech while we're gone.

Leo [01:03:00]:
And if we're wrong, we'll talk about it when we get back.

Gary [01:03:02]:
Yeah, indeed.

Leo [01:03:04]:
All right, that does it for this week. Thanks as always to everybody for listening and hanging out with us. We will see you again sometime later this year. Take care, everyone. Bye. Bye.

Gary [01:03:13]:
Bye.